For the first time ever I am posting twice in one day. There is nothing for it, as I am now on holiday finally and have some time, and because I see rubbish like this posted. Now, admittedly, WoW.com is the place to look for rubbish, but even this was more rubbish than the usual rubbish that we get from them. To sum it up, healers are the drummers of the group. He meant for this to be a compliment I think, but whatever. Apparently healers are far more important than any other class. This is my favorite quote from this “article”:
“… If the tank and healer are both good, as long as the DPS can put out ANY DPS and there’s no enrage timer, things will die.”
So any DPS will do now, will it? And I love how he stuck the ‘no enrage timer’ clause in there. Are we talking 5 man heroics or raids here, because as far as I know just about every single freaking boss in present raids has an enrage timer. Oh, but wait, he snuck “… The healer is the most important member of a five man group,” in at the beginning of his article. Well, just so we’re clear that this certainly isn’t true in any raids that I know of. But is it true? Will just any old DPS do in a 5 man group? And is healing that hard and compolicated?
I will now come clean – I have a healer. Even worse, it’s a paladin. I leveled him up to about level 40 when a couple of friends wanted to try WoW. One of them chose to tank, one chose DPS, so I went with the healer. After they got bored of WoW and drifted off I still had the paladin, so I mucked around with him for a bit. I took him into 5 mans. I healed. It wasn’t hard. In fact, how do I put this, it was ridiculously easy. My first run was through the Stockades. It was a PuG and the tank was good. Except that he just ran, and we had to keep up. It was a rude shock for a first-time healer but I kept up as best as I could. And all I had to do was spam Flash of Light as fast as I could. I never ran out of mana and i kept that tank and the rest of the group up for the whole run. We finished it in what seemed like extra-record time and we didn’t wipe. We didn’t even have one death. And afterwards I got complimented on my healing.
So this is what we’re all getting our knickers in a knot for? For players who spam one button while standing at the back and who never run out of mana while they’re doing it? If anyone did a good job in the 5 man it was the tank – his performance was truly impressive. The DPS were good as well due to the fact that things died quickly. I also think that current heroics are not good indicators at all for what is the optimal party balance for a 5 man, namely due to the fact that the gear ratio to the difficulty level is just so high. If you go into an heroic run with a really well geared tank and some good DPS then you are not going to need any heals. You’ll get the bosses and mobs down before any of them will kill you. Old school 5 mans, however, are a good test for what is reality. And healing is not hard. I don’t know what they’re carrying on about. Good DPS is hard.
Is that it? No, not quite, Apparently the roles of healing and tanking are so stressful, so complicated, so unforgiving and so unappreciated that we now have to give tanks and healers the biggest rewards. This is a guest post from ‘We Fly Spitfires’ on World of Matticus. I am a big fan of We Fly Spitfires, I have his blog linked on the side. But this post is beyond stupid. An example:
“… Tanks and healers are in consistent short supply whereas DPS are a dime a dozen. And there’s a reason for that. Tanking isn’t easy and it comes with a lot of pressure and responsibility.”
No, actually the reason for it is that every class can DPS and we got dual specs a while back. Rogues can’t tank the last time that I checked. It gets better though:
“… Healing is much the same and also comes with it’s own set of stresses and strains.”
Stresses and strains? Do you want a special blanket, a cup of tea and a soothing back rub as well? This is a game for fucks sake. Healing is not any more stressful than being a melee DPS. In fact I found it much easier – just keep everyone alive. I didn’t have to worry about boss tactics or juggle all my cool-downs, I just had to spam flash of light. But apparently I am such a special and unique flower when I play my paladin that I should be getting special rewards.
“… Sub-par DPS can join a raid (even if it’s not desirable) but sub-par tanks cannot tank one and poor healers cannot heal one.”
So what he is saying here is that you can carry DPS but you cannot carry tanks or healers. What rubbish, I’ve carried healers and tanks many times. Three healers on a ten man and you can bet your butt that you’ll be carrying one of them. Where do you put the crappy healer? On the ranged DPS for the most part. Tank not up to scratch? Well, we can work around that by changing our tactics a bit, happened on Ignis the Furnace master quite often actually. If that didn’t happen we’d just swap him with the off-tank. By this sentence alone, Gordon is implying that any tank or healer in a raid environment will be top-notch, whereas the reality is just not true. Last quote coming up:
“… Call it a Tank or Healer Bonus, and a well deserved one at that. They are more important and necessary than anyone else, rarer to find, and they’re jobs are a lot tougher and far more stressful.”
Oh, you’re such a special flower, aren’t you?
January 8, 2010 at 6:00 pm
I have an 80 holy priest and a new leveling rogue, and when I read that post at WoW.com and at World of Matticus, although I can see what was trying to be said, I still don’t agree with them. When a healer is in a solid group with a great tank and amazing DPS, they have an easy job. They shouldn’t have to click more then three buttons (but that is really beside the point). Without a good tank or DPS the healer definitely has a harder time, but that doesn’t make them deserve an extra pat on the back for playing a healing class.
I can only speak for using the random dungeon finder at low levels at the moment. However, I’ve found it is harder to find DPS then a tank and a healer, my guess is because EVERYONE and their mothers are making tanks and healers so they are guaranteed a group. I’d accept the random dungeon finder group confirmation thing, as would the tank and healer, and then two DPS would decline and we’d be back waiting for more DPS. This has happened on at least three different occasions.
January 8, 2010 at 8:02 pm
Adding my hat into the ring on this as well I also have a level 80 Holy Priest. My experience has been this:
Whenever ANYONE tries to say that ONE class type deserves special consideration they are forgetting one specific element: It takes a TEAM effort to complete ANY objective. Now there are times you can get away without a Healer or a Tank by being EXTREMELY over level and/or geared for something but that is it.
Tanks and Healers DO have something else to keep in mind vrs DPS. Dps only have to consider themselves. I mean, lets be honest. The average DPS only thinks about their place on the Damage meters not how they can use their skills to make the tank and healers jobs easier, especially in random pugs. Tanks and Healers on the other hand are responsible for EVERYONE ELSE in the group, Wither they like it or not.
I have healed NUMEROUS Halls of Reflection Pugs in which not a SINGLE dps would take the time or effort to CC the adds even when repeatedly requested by the tank and myself forcing me as a healer to heal EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE GROUP MEMBERS rather than being able to focus on just the tank and splash damage. In addition to this the TANK has been force to scramble to maintain aggro on VARIOUS mobs as well as protect me as his healer rather than just focus on a single target.
Bad Tanks, Bad Healers and Bad Dps all equal Bad groups. Most frequently however we blame the Tanks and Healers FIRST and blame the Dps LAST…unless the Dps is just REALLY poor from the beginning. There is a reason for the old saying “If the Tank dies it is the Healers Fault, if the Healer dies it is the Tanks fault, if the Dps Dies, it is there OWN fault.”
Wish people would spend less time pointing fingers and wrenching their backs out trying to get extra goodies and more time learning how to work together.
January 8, 2010 at 8:10 pm
Ok, I agree with the whole team mindset, no one is truly special. I am only commenting because I would like it known ANYONE can be carried, especially through heroics, and not even (good) dps are immune to keeping their other members in mind.
For instance, when on my rogue, I have run MANY heroics with subpar tanks. Guess what happens when the tank loses aggro to the healer on something… I grab it, and kidney shot it. If it is multiple, I FoK and evasion tank it, to save the healer. Believe me, they notice and will not let you die. Another bad tank trick is, well, Tricks of the Trade. Seriously, you have to be afk to lose aggro on anything when a rogue FoKs it to you.
And when you have a bad healer, the same! Tank taking big spike damage and the healer is behind? Vanish/Cheap Shot the hurtiest mob, then 2CP Kidney on another. Even the worst healer catches up then. Or plain and simple tell the tank not to taunt, grab aggro, and Evasion tank 1-2 of the mobs. Make the latter plan well known, or you are in some serious trouble.
So, basically, I do not think any one is in any way special. MY healers are special to me, as are my tanks. But then again, all those folks I regularly compete with in recount/wws/wol are my best buds, too, because without them, that boss would just not die.
January 8, 2010 at 8:25 pm
“…Tanks and Healers DO have something else to keep in mind vrs DPS. Dps only have to consider themselves.”
Daraia, you outlined this afterwards but I will underline it: a bad DPS only thinks of themselves. My first run in Halls of reflection, the first day of the patch, it was obvious that finally we had a crowd control situation, and I spent a good deal of my time locking down unfriendlies that were beating on the healers.
The average dps only thinks about themselves on the damage meters.
The average healer only thinks about keeping the tank up.
The average tank only thinks about what is right in front of his face.
There is a lot of averageness out there. Which is why blanket statements, like the ones that I linked in my post, really annoy me.
Matt, you sound like an awesome rogue. Respect, and anyone would be lucky to have you in your group.
Nefarious, I hear you. I have run with some truly awful DPS lately. I am also pugging on lower levels and I am finding the groups horrendous. No communication, no idea, and lots of attitude. Keep plugging away at it.
January 9, 2010 at 2:30 am
Thank you Adam for understanding what my sleep deprived mind was trying to say…oh for the edit button…
I have to say it is nice to see instances that require us to dust off those long unused skills like disarm traps and CC skills.
Players who are just now entering the game have never SEEN these foreign concepts as DPS. Let alone know that they should think about using them to achieve their objectives. All they know is Pew, pew, run, run.
Unfortunately us veterans don’t really have the opportunity to share our experience in the dissociative experience that is the new looking for group system very often. But when we do, grasp it with both hands and we will get better dps, better healers and better tanks, leading to a better game experience for all.
January 9, 2010 at 12:57 pm
The motivation behind the article was to dissect the roles and look at the how tanking and healing fairs towards DPS. Being a tank myself, I always found the position of, especially, Main Tank in raids to be very pressured and stressful, very contrary to my feelings when I DPSed in raids. If people can agree that being a raid tank or raid healer is more stressful than DPSing, the floor is open to looking at ways to compensate the player for that experience.
However, saying that, the feedback has definitely and strongly suggested that every player feels the same amount (or lack of) stress and pressure in ANY role in the group or raid. This has been a real eye opener for me and I think speaks more about my personal experiences as a tank than the role itself. I now wonder if my stress as a raid tank would’ve been a lot lessened in other guilds or games or that maybe it’s just the way my individual personality works.
Regardless, in hindsight, the article was defintely wrong to marginalise DPS and their importance to the group/raid so apologies for that.
The article has received excellent feedback in terms of comments and blog posts (like this one) and it’s been brilliant to read such great insight into the different roles and player’s thoughts and opinions. It’s always great to create debate and share our views. Rest assured, my opinion has been changed dramatically
Nice post and great blog!
January 9, 2010 at 2:23 pm
Gordon,
Judging by your OP and subsequent comments I’m thinking that perhaps you were taking on more than your fair share of the hard work in your raiding guild. Needless to say, us bloggers learn one thing everntually – get it right! I have made some huge clunkers in the past and had my face rubbed in it for my efforts. It’s how you bounce back that counts, and your attitude and comments after the fact are top notch, which is what I’ve come to expect from your excellent blog. Keep up the great work and it’s a load off my mind that you didn’t take my ‘rubbing-your-face-in it’ the wrong way.
January 10, 2010 at 11:03 pm
Heya guys
I can’t contribute to the healer argument, however the tanking one i can! Before last september, i was a progressive warrior tank for 2yrs, and in all honesty, it was no different in terms of “perceived pressure” than dps is. I always held dps in high regards while tanking; the less damage and survivability (moving from fire etc) a dps class has, the more work a healer has as the fight wears on. Same with heals, if they haven’t got their head screwed on one night, someone dies, making the fight longer. As for tanks, if they miss a crucial ability (just say an interrupt) and thus lowering their incoming damage, the healer has to react to that and may miss a heal on the dps mentioned previously who dies. Its the “holy trinity” of most games, and until all parts are equal in any perceived fight, people will give bias to the “important” class.
January 11, 2010 at 3:20 am
As a fellow rogue I can say that stress levels and pressure in 5mans or raids is icredibly group dependent, and isn’t role dependent. I can’t count the number of times in a random heroic that I have been paired with a terrible tank. One time in VH a very aware hunter and myself tanked the majority of the dungeon. It didn’t matter that I used TotT with overkill and the hunter misdirected at the beginning of the pull, the tank was putting out such abysmal threat that either of us would quickly surpass him.
If everybody in the group is at the top of their game then there is near zero stress in any “farm” content. And in any progression content every player is feeling stress trying to play perfectly. The tank(s) is trying to maintain threat on one or more mobs while maximizing survivability with cooldowns. The healer(s) is trying to keep everybody alive. And the DPS is trying to maximize their damage and paying close attention to cooldowns, procs, and rotation to do so. All the while every role is trying to perfectly position themselves within range of everybody else, behind the boss, and out of colorful circles on the ground.
If the tank isn’t on top of things the healers and DPS feel the strain. If the healers are out of it the tank and DPS are strained. And if the DPS is failing the tanks and healers are feeling it. That’s why is refered to as the holy trinity because no single player or role instantly makes the game less stressful or turns it into easy mode. Nobody is a unique snowflake and any player that thinks they are is wrong.
January 12, 2010 at 2:45 pm
Some great points in those last two comments. I particularly like the holy trinity comment. We’re all connected on a run, as you both say. One role doesn’t step up, or has no idea, and it’s extra work for everyone.
March 18, 2010 at 9:03 am
[...] this is when Gordon at We Fly Spitfires made a guest post at World of Matticus. I wrote about this here. The point is that Gordon was wrong and got called out on it in a big way. My calling out was done [...]
March 18, 2010 at 5:24 pm
I agree it takes all three roles to pull their weight. However different fights have different mechanics to stress each of these roles.
I don’t understand how you can say healing is easy from what you have posted. All healing is easy because it was easy for you in your old world five man? And you are using that one experience for other types of healing? I’ll grant you it can be easy mode at times if the tank is well geared and the dps stay out of fires- especially in end game heroics. That is still a very thin argument or premise to use. Yes healers do have to be aware of boss mechanics (que more damge incoming.) It’s been a long time since we’ve been able to just stand and heal since most of the fights involve so much movement now. Try healing some end game raids (say Festergut 10 man where if anyone dies it’s probably a wipe) and then tell me how easy healing is ; )
I understand DPS is important- and it’s awesome to have strong dps that is aware of their surroundings. These type of dps are that special blanket, cup of tea, and soothing back rub all at once.
March 18, 2010 at 6:19 pm
Perhaps I found it easy from the point of view that playing a rogue as a main I am well used to movement based play, (and I was sprinting through that instance as the tank never stopped for a moment). To me it seems that healing is difficult if you are prone to losing the plot and crack under pressure. That’s not such a big deal if you’re dps, as you just die. But do that as a healer and everyone dies.
March 21, 2010 at 2:03 am
[...] the recent release of the LFD system may have renewed discussion about the tank shortage (see here, here and here, among others), it is by no means a new phenomenon (see February 2007, August 2007, March [...]