Gevlon’s undergeared project is progressing along, but he needs more people. It only takes a few hours on Saturday night to raid, so if you have a level 80 toon sitting around that hasn’t done much raiding before, and you want to be involved in a creative group that is doing something different, I urge you to give it a try. Write Gevlon a quick email and ask him what classes or roles he really needs. I know from the intelligent comments on this blog that I have some readers who I would be very happy to have next to me in a raid, so give it a shot.
I can’t contribute to the project anymore unfortuately as from this Saturday I reopen my bar which has been closed all winter, (have to clean it today – the horror!) And anyway, for me and my time available in WoW I can only dedicate myself to one thing at a time, and I am really enjoying the PvP ganking project. Last night I got a whisper from a guildie who asked for my help in Nagrand at the Ring of Blood or trials or whatever the hell it’s called. So off I popped and there were three of them waiting for me. We began the encounter and were at the second last boss when we got ganked by two level 80 horde: a warlock and a shaman. I was in my PvE gear and my combat spec but I still managed to take them down, with some obviously help from the other 3 who were around level 65. We restarted the encounter and they came back again, and we took them out again, (they really sucked.) Then I decided to change to my PvP gear and PvP mutilate spec. They came back again and I noticed a substantial difference in my damage output. It was much lower. And I couldn’t get them down and they took us out. Then it became a game of corpse camping as they sat just out of reach of my sap on their mounts. Until we called in a level 80 shaman from the guild and got them down again. Until they came back with two of their friends, and, you get the idea. It went back and forth a bit. I felt for the poor level 65′s during this.
So I am not wondering why there is such a big difference with my specs and gear, I am wondering why it is the wrong way around. My PvP gear is higher level and has resiliance on it, but still they took me down faster with it on. And with my combat spec I blew them away with damage. The mutilate spec felt incredibly slow in comparison. I’m going to have to do some time on a dummy and figure out what is going on.
April 13, 2010 at 9:14 am
It is rather simple question: with PvE spec/gear you both have higher DPS and they have higher DPS on you (lack resilience). By putting on PvP gear, you simply slowed down the battle.
Since they sucked, the slow pace favored them as they had more time finding their spells on the castbar and click on them. In PvE gear you could kill one before he could do anything.
Also, I’m sorry to say but you made a rather large strategical mistake. After you killed them first, you all should have mount up and leave the sector. Their return was inevitable and if you win, they will surely ask for reinforcement. Until we are a full geared and trained group (not 1 vs 2) hit and run.
April 13, 2010 at 11:43 am
I don’t know what gear they had on. Perhaps they switched gear types when I did, hard to say.
We stuck around because the level 65 guildies hadn’t been able to finish the ring of blood encounter due to us being attacked. After the third attack I stealthed and watched and let our level 80 shaman help them finish the quest.
April 13, 2010 at 12:05 pm
I’m sorry for “being an #@$”, but you were not stuck, even if you stick to the 65s. There are plenty of quests available for 65s (for example in blade’s edge) without gankers. They WANTED to finish the arena, that why you died so many times.
April 14, 2010 at 4:30 pm
I think you’re having a english idiom issue, gevlon. “stuck around” just means that he chose to stay and see if they could get the encounter done. In standard UK or US English, Adam made no implication that he felt “stuck” in the sense that he had a restriction on his choices in the matter. At least not in his post or replies here.
April 13, 2010 at 11:47 am
Whats your rotation pvp wise on mutilate.
It should vary on classes/armour types but really the burst damage should be apparent with assassination spec.
Perhaps Killing spree just made it seem easier/faster
April 13, 2010 at 12:13 pm
Hey Pitrelli,
Here is a link to my armory:
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Magtheridon&cn=Elizz%C3%A0
I have on my PvP set and you can see the mutilate spec I am running. When I open with this I often get 3 to 4 combo points immediately. I will either mutilate again or kidney shot to keep them locked or pop a finisher either eviscerate or envenom depending on how much poison is stacked. Keep in mind that I have been playing this spec for about a week now, so my mutilate experience is very low. Any tips would be appreciated.
The combat spec had such a huge effect that I almost even didn’t need to use killing spree. It was bizarre.
April 13, 2010 at 1:41 pm
I’ll have a look when I get home. Oh and I’d remove Eviscerate from your bar, you wont be using it (may have changed since I’ve played my rogue)as assassination.
I’d just put it down to experience, I’d go duel a few people (not covered in PvP gear), its not ideal but gives you a general consensus of what works on various classes.
With clothies I didnt really bother with stuns (specifically mages), relying mainly on crippling poison procing and going from there. Id also recommend rupture its imo an underrated PvP move specifically if its a ‘Ranged’ player who might get away from you i.e its still doing damage + hunger for blood.
Im very much of the opinion there is no right or wrong in pvp, you will find out what works for you personally sooner or later. Just keep sticking in and try not get frustrated. Trial and error is the name of the game
April 13, 2010 at 8:08 pm
http://www.wowwiki.com/Rogue_PvP_guide
some good tid bits there
April 13, 2010 at 12:18 pm
Gevlon, you’re not being a #@” at all, I always appreciate constructive criticism. But just to clarify;
They attacked us the first time and we took them out without any problem. Just wiped the floor with them, so no reason to leave.
They attacked a second time and once again we took them out easily. That’s when I made the mistake of chaging my gear and spec.
The third time they attacked I couldn’t get them down and we died. I suppose that was when we should have left, but I had already missed doing wintergrasp because of this and I wanted to get it done. So yeah, we can definitely learn from that and not waste time with a similar situation in the future.
April 13, 2010 at 1:44 pm
I’ll disagree with Gevlon, running away after the kill defeats the purpose. You want to send out a message in that you wont be messed with and are there to stay and make them move. By staying you did that. The fact they called in reinforcements showed that they knew you were a force to be reckoned with
April 13, 2010 at 12:48 pm
You could have better weapons as Combat, or better crit chance, or you just pressed Killing Spree and won.
Either way, there’s probably a few reasons for it. If Mutilate doesn’t crit, it does very laughable damage, so that may be why as well.
April 13, 2010 at 1:15 pm
It is a pain being on a pvp server doing pvp when you need to progress. But from the aims of your guild is it any wonder that you may be singled out more than normal for ganking. Indeed is it not the aims for your guild to drive the horde away?
That said if you are in a ganking guild you should not run/flee at the first sign of a challenge and you seem to have held your own. By showing a bit of grit hopefully the horde will think twice before attacking guild members (or maybe not) again!
Also if you gained anything from the experience then the time is not wasted. You wrote about the event so how can you think it was time wasted?? And you questioned your pvp abilities in order to improve. And you help your guildies. You showed backbone.
April 13, 2010 at 7:14 pm
I may have posted this previously on a different thread, but I run both specs as well and was only using Mutilate in PvP situations. I decided to test combat in PvP and found great success, both from a high DPS standpoint (killing them faster) as well as from a shock-and-awe standpoint. I contend that since so many rogues don’t use combat in PvP, a lot of opponents simply don’t expect it and are momentarily thrown off by it.
April 13, 2010 at 11:25 pm
Since you died to the horde several times, does that mean you contributed -100 points to the Gankers project?
April 14, 2010 at 7:11 am
Lets see, I died twice but I killed 7 horde, so that makes it -33.
April 14, 2010 at 10:11 pm
I’m really not trying to troll here, but isn’t that pretty discouraging? You basically dominated the Horde, tried out a new strategy that was unsuccessful, and now you’re deep “in the hole” by Gevlon’s system.
Also, how are you guys keeping track of the “scalp count” anyway?
April 15, 2010 at 5:57 am
There’s an addon which tracks how you’re doing. Not discouraging at all. Just a part of the project.
April 14, 2010 at 9:25 am
I ran a few battlegrounds last night and I think that I have figured out the difference between the two specs. The combat spec gives you great burst damage, but your survivability is low and your ability to restealth during a fight is limited.
The mutilate spec has lower burst but much higher survivability and lets you control the fight a lot better. Plus if you do get lucky with crits you can take your opponent down quickly.