A few people have congratulated me over the amount of comments that I have received in the last week or so. To be honest though, most of those comments can be attributed to just a handful of posters, which makes it somewhat less of an achievement. The number of hits, while nice, isn’t my motivation for writing in this blog. My motivation is the act of writing itself. Feedback though, is always a nice thing, and I’ll never say no to it in any of its forms. Saying that, it has been somewhat disappointing to see the number of blog lists that I have been culled from in the last few days. Freedom of expression must include the right to offend. It is how a person deals with a contrarian view that decides if a discussion proceeds in a manner that is positive or negative. Unfortunately, the majority of differring opinions with my own approached the argument in an ad hominem manner. You discredit the argument by discrediting the arguer.
Most people live in a box made from their own experiences. Their method of disgesting information is to digest within the confines of their box. Thus if there is something that they strongly disagree with then it must by rights be disagreed with within their boxes parameters, as that is the only expereince that they have. If the topic does not even fit within their box, being so far out of their own experiences, then they have a choice: they can either attempt to use critical thinking in an attempt to understand or they can file it under the simple headings of ‘good’ or ‘bad’. Thus, filing it under ‘bad’, the logical step is to then personally attack the person saying this differing opinion. Another way to reach an understanding of ones position in this way is to see what other like-minded people think of the argument. If they are all saying that the person is bad then it is much easier to come to a quick judgement without having to resort to critical thinking. Thus when another blog links to me and in the link itself calls me a ‘complete bigot’, then it has poisoned the well for its readers who are attempting to make a quick judgement.
A comment on the Righteous orbs post takes this to extremes. He is an exerpt from it:
“… a) Why are all rogues always like this Adam guy?
b) Adam seems to be so far into his white, male privilege he can’t see the wood for the… OMGWTFBBQTHATSMALEPHALLICSYMBOLISMZOMGWHEREISFREUDWHENYOUNEEDHIM?
c) I’m really not at all surprised to see these attitudes coming from a male in Sydney based on attitudes I know for a fact are issues in that city and country (c.f. recent UN report on endemic discrimination and racism in Australia, google it for more info and while you are at it also look up “Cronulla Riots”). And yeah, I am implying that Adam would support that bollocks. It’s actually scarey how many people do support it.
d) Adam even says in his “about me” section that he is a bigot. Makes me wonder why he is bothering to defend himself with comments like “I marched in the Sydney Mardi Gras 20 years ago” implying “See? I wasn’t a bigot then therefore I can’t be one now!” I CALL SHENANIGANS!”
The poster has formed his opinion already and then come looking for ways to support it. Lets leave out the awful stereotyping in point A, as well as the meaningless chatter in point B and move to point C. It is interesting that he assumes that I live in Sydney, (based on my statement in one of the threads that I marched in the Sydney Gay mardi gra over 20 years ago to support some friends), when on my about page it clearly states that I live in Italy. I am not even from Sydney, I come from Perth. I merely travelled across to Sydney for that occassion. And even if I were from Syndey, it is once again a gross generalisation in an attempt to support a pre-made theory.
I know that he did in fact look at my about page, because he attempts to quote it in Point D. As far as me stating in my about page that I am a bigot, that surprised me somewhat. So much that I had to take another look. I think I may have found the offending type:
“… My views are conceited, ignorant, unamusing and insulting. I hope that you enjoy them as much as my dog does.”
I suppose that if you are desperately searching for ways to support your viewpoint then you could twist this any way you wish. Readers with critical thinking abilities will most probably be able to recognise this as an attempt at sarcasm. I thought the dog part gave it away.
I am not attempting to attack this person, and have no wish to re-start another flame war. I am merely using it as an example of why critical thinking is so important, and how in the blogging world at present, particularly amongst bloggers themselves, this seems to be clearly lacking. Thinking outside of your box and attempting to understand what a person is actually trying to say is a wonderful skill to have. I just wish more bloggers and readers would try to learn it.
September 1, 2010 at 9:46 am
stick to your guns and beliefs. Your honesty and writing style is why your on my reader (mental note to put you on my new blog roll). As for righteous orbs meh opinions are like assholes everyone has one and thinks the other guys stinks. The fact he tries to generalise so much shows he himself isnt as open minded as he seems to think he is.
September 1, 2010 at 7:44 pm
Good to see you back, bro, and thanks for the kind words.
September 1, 2010 at 8:19 pm
haha yeah thanks it seemed you were right my old blog was doomed
September 1, 2010 at 10:13 am
sexism in a fantasyworld is so much bullshit… i dont get it at all. must be the summer… nothing else to talk about so lets talk about fantasyworlds and sexism… wtf is wrong with you all?! who the fuck cares about shit like this?! now let me get to my d&d books and show me some flesh…
September 1, 2010 at 11:59 am
Well to be honest Adam I’ve found a lot of the views on either side of the debate pretty interesting and yet there will be someone in the comments supporting a theory being an absolute retard.
I don’t tend to read the backslapping posts as a lot of them will simply latch on to an idea to further their own prejudices. No blog is really immune to this, look at one of your own comment threads from the other day. It started with people objecting to changing a game on behalf of a political movement to a couple people suddenly hating on liberals.
September 1, 2010 at 12:21 pm
To be honest, it absolutley amazes me how often the bloggers/posters on the feminist side of this argument come across as bigots. If you’re claiming to be taking a stand against bigotry, it really doesn’t help your cause if you act like one yourself.
Also, if they really want to sway more people into supporting their causes, they need to stop likening anyone who disagrees with anything they say as being one step away from a rapist. It really does make it look like they haven’t any actual argument.
Maybe WoW would be better with stronger female characters or whatever and maybe it wouldn’t. Claiming its sexism just so they can label anyone who disagrees as some sort of misogynistic bigot, only trivialises the real issue of sexism. It might get the feminists worked up, but they already support that particular cause. The non-feminists just think ‘what sexism?’ and stop taking them seriously.
September 2, 2010 at 9:09 am
Yaer – Whilst I’d agree that there is a dark side to feminism can you not at least agree that some fairly valid points were made? Ok, not maybe in my opinion about sexism in the game but the post Chas made before about how guys are viewed in society was actually pretty good.
Just because there’s retards on the fringes of one argument doesn’t mean it invalidates the entire argument.
I agree some labels were being bandied about a little too easily but at the same time this is what feminists would call a classic silencing technique. As a bloke I pretty much do the same thing as you which is think “what sexism?” It’s kinda wrong because even though it doesn’t affect us it doesn’t mean it’s not bad. This is what the feminists call “the male privilege” which is something I’ve been getting my head around – as I understand it, we don’t see some of the imbalances because we’re viewing it from a position where a lot of them don’t affect us. Kind of like rogues not giving a shit when hunters get nerfed :p
All I’d say is that if you can get past some of the terminology used and some of the people in that commments thread, there’s some pretty interesting reading. Especially seeing as it was a post initially to highlight how sexism impacts us guys.
September 2, 2010 at 9:33 am
“… Yaer – Whilst I’d agree that there is a dark side to feminism can you not at least agree that some fairly valid points were made? Ok, not maybe in my opinion about sexism in the game but the post Chas made before about how guys are viewed in society was actually pretty good.”
Seeing as our whole argument was the lack of value of “isms” in the game, I think your comment has just validated our line of argument. The whole point was the exclusion of issues that are in society but we have no wish to see brought into the game. Good point or not that Chas made in this regard, it is not what we were arguing about and thus in this context is irrelevant.
September 2, 2010 at 10:52 am
“Seeing as our whole argument was the lack of value of “isms” in the game, I think your comment has just validated our line of argument. The whole point was the exclusion of issues that are in society but we have no wish to see brought into the game. Good point or not that Chas made in this regard, it is not what we were arguing about and thus in this context is irrelevant.”
Adam – I don’t think the game should be changed as a result of political pressure. As I’ve stated in a fair few places I think this shits all over what feminists want. By drawing attention to differences and forcing special treatment I think it just makes shit worse.
My comment was to Yaer because I thought what he was saying was:
“I’m disregarding everything said because a couple people called adam a bigot”
When actually I got a lot out of both sides which helped me figure out what my own views were.
I think the sad thing to come out of this is how easily a lot of people in the wow blogging community will label others and how quick to insult each other everyone was. If someone disagrees with me and calls me a cockweasel for posting something on the official forums I disregard it because its not criticism it’s just a barking dog. The fact that a group of people I thought were calmer and more intelligent than that got overheated was just depressing.
September 2, 2010 at 11:01 am
Fair enough, and point taken. I agree with you that it has been depressing to see some peoples reaction. On the other hand it exposed some people for how they really are, and I prefer an ugly reality over a false one, that way I know where I stand.
September 2, 2010 at 11:31 am
Yeah, you’re right of course there’s idiots on both sides. Unfortunately they seem to be the ones that shout the loudest.
And yes, I do agree there were reasonable, well thought out arguments put forward by both sides. Both sides had arguments that caused me to think a bit more deeply about the issues than I have before, which is certainly a good thing.
I didn’t mean to imply anything said by feminists should be disregarded because of the attitude of a few, just that I was genuinely suprised by the amount of bigotry showed by people (not all of course, but a few) that claimed to be against bigotry.
One thing I do disagree with though, is putting my lack of agreement down to male privilege. To me, that would be just as sexist as claiming its all down to female overreaction.
September 1, 2010 at 1:28 pm
I don’t think you should be disappointed to be culled from the blog lists of such idiots. You should wear it as a badge of honor. That you have drawn such hate should indicate to you that, having called the morons on their bullshit, you have undermined their specious arguments so effectively, and pissed them off so thoroughly, that their only resort is to call you names and throw you out of their clubhouse. Now ask yourself: did you really want to be in that clubhouse after all?
As far as I’m concerned, anyone who responds to a simple difference of opinion as Chastity et al. have is simply scum, nothing more. You don’t have to treat them with respect. Ridicule them, spit on them, drive them away and then celebrate when they’re gone. Their opinions are not worth hearing, their esteem not worth having.
These are the walls of my box, and I’m damn happy in it.
September 1, 2010 at 1:40 pm
I entirely agree with you about the box type thinking. The difficulty I find is that it requires a constant vigilance to keep thinking outside of the box and it requires a motivation in the first instance to start thinking outside of the box.
I’d like to pretend that I maintain that vigilance but I know that I don’t at times. It’s much easier to not bother and especially if one has never bothered.
But I try not to give up hope. If one simply dismisses all the closed minds as stupid, ignorant or whatever, then one has joined them in their closed minded approach to the world.
September 1, 2010 at 7:46 pm
It is the effort made in constant vigilance that seperates us. There are countless minds in the world. I’m not interested in trying to open the ones that are firmly closed. For me it is enough to manage to keep my own open, and perhaps help those who are sitting on the fence.
September 1, 2010 at 2:55 pm
Well said, Adam!
I think it also doesn’t help that certain people don’t realize what their followings are capable of or how exactly they influence them. I make it very clear in posts that I feel are going to be severely opinionated that it’s my opinion and I certainly don’t expect everyone to agree with it or quote what I do or do as I say as gospel.
This goes for tactics and strategies, as well. I post tips and advice that I have found useful and that others may, too. I would never start inspecting druids that read my page and go “You didn’t do what I said!” If they’re finding success in their own way – then we all win. That’s not why we get into blogging, in my opinion. It should be to share opinions and thoughts, not brow beat others into taking them on or adopting them.
I think we do have a responsibility to our readers, in a way, to feel out your audience and bear in mind that we do command a following that may or may not know better on how to react to the causes we crusade for. I think it’s up to us to do our part, to make sure that we’re not unknowingly sending angry mobs someone’s way, because of the way we said something or how we reacted to it. I feel your situation with Self-Righteous Orbs was a perfect example of this.
I haven’t checked my e-mail yet (because of the obvious time-zone differences), but if you would still like to discuss things further, please let me know.
September 1, 2010 at 7:48 pm
Yeah, it can be easy as bloggers to bash out a thoughtless post and turn a blind eye to the fact that we do influence our readership, something of which I have certainly been guilty of in the past.
No need to discuss, your email cleared it all up. It seems that we are on the same page, thanks for that.
September 1, 2010 at 10:47 pm
Well I just read the whole of his/her post + the comments. Hey my realm was down
Just want to say fair play for keeping relatively cool, cant be easy to have been judged about an opion about a video game. I have to ask however WTF is with rape etc getting brought up near the end of the article.
Very creepy, especially since they were also trying to nail down where you stay
I’d stay in stealth for a while mate….. lol
September 2, 2010 at 12:52 am
“…it has been somewhat disappointing to see the number of blog lists that I have been culled from in the last few days.”
This only matters to people who want recognition from their peers. Gevlon has some choice thoughts on that subject.
September 2, 2010 at 6:33 am
I was disappointed that their actions are so clouded by their false judgement. Personally I really couldn’t give a shit.
September 2, 2010 at 7:54 am
You obviously care abit or you wouldnt be expressing disappointment. I would be a little taken aback too I think, except no one follows my blog haha. No seriously, you cant have an opinion on anything without someone somewhere violently disagreeing with it even if you think the world is flat or round. Like to give you a quote by an old UK prime minster (john major) the first part of growing up was realising not everyone liked me, the 2nd part was being ok with that.
September 2, 2010 at 8:47 am
Yes, I care but not on a personal level. Please see my comment above as I dislike having to repeat myself in such a short space of time.
September 2, 2010 at 8:36 am
“Saying that, it has been somewhat disappointing to see the number of blog lists that I have been culled from in the last few days. Freedom of expression must include the right to offend.”
It does include the right to offend. However, if you exercise the right to offend, don’t be surprised or disappointed when people are offended, that’s really fairly insane you know.
The comments on this post are pretty sad, a few intolerant bigots congratulating themselves on getting rid of all those intolerant bigot liberals that were polluting their blogspace. The thing is, you don’t have to go back to the beginning to find out which side was ACTUALLY bigoted, and which wasn’t. Find which side is happy to have found someone new to hate, and that’s the real bigots. Guess what, these comments reveal that you guys win, you’re the real haters. Woooo!
September 2, 2010 at 1:16 pm
HOORAY! \o/ WE WIN! Now fuck off.
September 3, 2010 at 7:10 pm
That illicited audible laughter.
September 7, 2010 at 5:53 pm
You mean “elicited”.
Thanks for the kind words Sjonnar, you continue to show that you’re still the kind of man you always were.
September 2, 2010 at 12:40 pm
After I got over the shock of being singled out (after all, no one pays attention to what I say on the internet… no really, they don’t) I started writing a comment to say HI, and that I mostly agreed with your dissection of my comment, believe it or not, but it got a bit long, so I turned it into what I hope is the last of my day of epic postingness.
Feel free to come read it, it is possibly not what you would expect
September 2, 2010 at 2:21 pm
“Most people live in a box made from their own experiences. Their method of disgesting information is to digest within the confines of their box. Thus if there is something that they strongly disagree with then it must by rights be disagreed with within their boxes parameters, as that is the only expereince that they have. If the topic does not even fit within their box, being so far out of their own experiences, then they have a choice: they can either attempt to use critical thinking in an attempt to understand or they can file it under the simple headings of ‘good’ or ‘bad’.”
I read the original post. That is a pretty big chunk of hypocritism right there.
September 2, 2010 at 3:18 pm
I’m sure you mean hypocrisy. Let’s not get any other -isms involved
(I totally had to dictionary.com that shit to make sure I wasn’t being retarded)
September 6, 2010 at 6:00 am
You may have lost a spot on a few blog rolls, but I found your site through the post on Righteous Orbs, and you gained at least one reader. I some how doubt I’m the only one. Some of us do indeed read the linked posts, and form our own opinions, both oft the writer and the writers opinion at hand, based on what we read. I for one like your writing style, so I’ll be hanging around for awhile, even if I rarely play a rogue.