There were a few things that didn’t work in Age of Conan, but the number one thing that caused me to dump the game was the talent tree. Coming as I did from WoW, I knew that the talent tree was very important and that I should make sure to put my points exactly where they were needed. The problem with AoC was that it seemed that the developers had put most of their efforts into the starter area, and kind of rushed through the talent trees at the last moment. The tree didn’t make any sense, it was poorly designed and laid out, and there was very little information on the internet which I could use to help me make an informed decision.
So by level 17 or so I knew that my toon was flawed, but there was nothing that I could do about it. This falls squarely under the category of unfun, (I know that unfun isn’t a word but I’m using it, okay?) WoW’s talent tree system is not poorly designed, and information about it can quite easily be found on the internet, but it too is unfun. The only choice that you have in the system is choosing which of the three talent trees you want to specialise in. Once you have chosen that, however, you are required to dutifully fill your points in where they are most needed. You can decide to do your own quirky tree, but only if your intention is to play alone. So we have a system which allows you choice if you decide to be a solo player, and the illusion of choice if you want to play with other people. On top of that, if you don’t do your homework and find out exactly where to put your points, people will call you a moron and actively make fun of you.
Your class abilities however, are set. You gain abilities as you gain levels after being trained by your class trainer. Every rogue, for example, gets the same abilities. We all get smoke bomb at level 85. So here there most certainly is no choice. So what if we swapped this around? What if the talent tree was set in stone, and that as you gained levels your points were placed automatically in the tree? The tree was there solely as a diagram to guide you. That would mean that your skills could be chosen. There would be more skills than could be used at any one time. For example, lets say that in total there were 30 skills but a level 85 rogue could only choose 18 of them in total. You could choose only damage dealing skills, thus making your rogue great at dealing out the dps but leaving him with no utility. Crowd control abilities, raid buffs, stealth, AoE, self heals, all of these could be listed under abilities. You could also have the option to choose two builds; one for PvE and one for PvP, but not two in the same category.
A system like this would go some way to giving players some choice and avoid the cookie cutter builds that have been the case since the beginning of WoW. I suppose that EvE is an example of this system, now that I think about it. Balancing would be tricky on the devs part, so long as they didn’t fall into the trap of designing bosses with maximum dps builds required, (thus restricting players to only taking dps promoting abilities). Obviously the talent tree would have to be designed in a different way, as you couldn’t base it around abilities which players might not necessarily choose. But this is just a crazy idea that I’m throwing out there. Throw it back in my face if you so desire.
January 26, 2011 at 4:39 am
As long as the goal of an MMO is to kill bad guys and get virtually rich, the math will matter. In which case, it will be possible to optimize, and there will be an accepted solution.
January 26, 2011 at 6:43 pm
Yet every MMO implements character builds one way or the other. Why bother?
January 26, 2011 at 8:57 am
What you hope already exists, Guild Wars long ago and Guild Wars 2 in aclose future (hope so)
January 26, 2011 at 9:43 am
ragnarok online has such a system where you select spells (there are no additional talents).
system is separated between stat and skill level(/points). Skills usually have a number of ranks and depend on each other. besides from some ‘must have’ talents, it is open to the individual play style what kind of other spells (and ranks) he takes or how he distributes his stats (ever seen a mage with very high vit/dex and almost no int? it can be ideal in certain combinations).
sadly it is one of the boring ‘grind a few hundred hours’ asian games.
January 26, 2011 at 1:26 pm
I’m sorry to disappoint you but if your change would be implemented there will be cookie-cutter builds for abilities and anyone who did not choose their abilities as elitist jerks recommend will be called moron. There still will be no choice.
Also, consider simple mental excercise. Take the existing WoW. In your mind, rename “talents” into “abilities” and “abilities” into “talents”. You’ll get what you ask for in your article.
January 27, 2011 at 12:34 am
I don’t think so. There’s a big difference between being able to choose ‘improved sap’ or sap itself.
January 27, 2011 at 3:22 pm
Consider this. For raiding, you must have an optimized rotation (DPS-wise) and interrupt. Of course, you can choose not to take some rotational abilities or not to take kick, but this is as ephemeral choise as not taking Vendetta or Killing Spree. I.e. you will be kicked if tou do it “wrong”.
January 26, 2011 at 7:23 pm
I would guess that Blizz pushed us into a group of talent points in order to reduce the maintenance and testing required before a release.
If you know the player can only take 31 from a category and 10 from the others then the possible combinations is fewer than allowing them to take anything from all possible talents. Fewer combinations means fewer test combinations and hence less work before release to ensure there isn’t a totally unbalanced combination available. (Bear in mind that they would have to do this both intra class and inter class).
I’m not privy to Blizzard’s pretest release information so my guess is just that – a guess.
But I do agree with Anonymous that despite the choice most wise players would go with EJ recommendations because they’ve spent tedious hours effectively reverse engineering the mechanics to get the absolutely best results.
January 27, 2011 at 6:26 am
I’m been hit on my DK with the talents changes – I used to run a “Blood ghoul” spec, which was basically half half unholy and blood, just enough to get both the worms and the ghoul master. Yes, it was PvE and I’m obviously not a Minmaxer, but it was fun to play.
That said, now I’ve also run across the “no new fast 1H swords” issue, I’ve dual Wielded Fangs of Truth all the way to 85, using DeathCoil boost glyphs and the Ghoul powerups (talents and glyphs) available, and proc on hit trinks etc. If I let my ghoul get a few hits in first he’ll keep aggo for most of the fight until my free DCoils get rolling from the twin swords at 1.17 speed each and 15% proc. Kinda sucks I can’t enchant them as they’re not 300+, but I have runes so…
The short of it? Certainly I cannot be as creative with my spec as I used to be, and it remains to be seen how much derision my twin 187 iLevel Fangs expose me to when I start running heroics
Welcome back to Aus Ads – talk soon!
Tak
January 28, 2011 at 3:22 am
I thought a model where talents were automatically filled in and unchangeable was the direction Blizzard was headed in anyways?
January 30, 2011 at 5:36 pm
The new talent trees in Wow are severely unfun. There is much less choice now, so there is less difference between players’ talent trees. They say that “variety is the spice of life”, well it’s true. The old trees were lots of fun because you could do odd stuff like spec arcane but just enough fire to get pyroblast on your mage, or spec fury up to bloodthirst and then put points in prot. to get the stun for your warrior, now, you can’t do those things. Very boring. Oh, and no aimed shot for my BM hunter is pure sacrilege. No, cobra shot does NOT compensate for that. WHY WHY WHY?
January 31, 2011 at 12:15 am
You described the excellent design of the soul system in Rift, but they take it a bit further. It is easy to switch to an entirely different role depending on your circumstance, and I’m not talking combat vs assassination, I mean to be a tank rogue, or a healing rogue, or a hunter rogue.