Time to have a look at how these talents might play out in PvP. I say might due to the fact that I’m expecting these to get nerfed or changed outright. The rogue talents in PvP look pretty sweet. Not as awesome as the warlock talents which are jaw dropping, but still, pretty sweet nonetheless. The first thing that presents itself, apart from the fact that there is no clear-cut spread to take, is that some talents lend themselves to certain situations. This coupled with the fact that talents can be changed out whenever you’re out of a battleground or a raid and you may find yourself playing the strategic talent game.
For example, take a look at the fourth tier choice, Burst of Speed, and tell me what you would be able to do with that in say, Warsong Gulch, (I refuse to believe that this talent will stay in its present form as it is so overpowered with no cool-down. Rogues would be almost unstoppable in several battlegrounds with this.)
And this is the inherent problem with attempting to chart for you a clear set of choices. The fact that these talents are so amendable to certain situations means that as a rogue, (as any player really), you are going to have to be able to think on your feet to get the job. Which at the end of the day, who would want to argue with that?
Anyway, lets have a look at the choices available in each tier from a PvP point of view.
Tier 1 level 15
Subterfuge seems like a favourite here, particularly in arena play. I especially like the fact that this includes when receiving damage and not just when dealing; handy for those situations when some pesky spellcaster throws out an AoE spell. Don’t discount Nightstalker though: in the Circle of Blood arena, this could be very handy to get into position quickly on top of the raised platform. As for Shadowfocus, if this is able to be combined with the later talent shadowdance then that would be extremely interesting. In short, Subterfuge seems like a clear winner, but the other choices will have their moments.
Tier 2 level 30
Combat Readiness seems the weak one here; nice but not when compared to the other choices. At least, that is, on the surface. Combine this with Cloak of Shadows and you could be effectively bomb proof for a short period of time. Deadly Throw will be handy against spellcasters who like to kite, but I really like Nerve Strike: Minus 50% damage for 6 seconds after my stun wears off you? Yes, please.
Tier 3 Level 45
The talents here are all about healing and survival, and for the first time I do see a clear choice: leeching poison. It’s one thing to have to press a button to heal yourself, as in improved recuperate. It’s another thing entirely to have your opponents heal you whenever you hit them. Kind of like adding insult to injury. Cheat Death is your standard get me out of jail free card. The problem with these is that you are still so vulnerable that unless there is a damn god healer backing you up you are most lightly toast. I prefer to be the master of my own domain. I think Recuperate is crap, so how they could improve it is beyond me.
Tier 4 level 60
Look at it now; every rogue can have shadowstep. At the cost of preparation, or the previously mentioned burst of speed. A very tough tier to make a decision on. This might come down to being situation dependant.
Tier 5 level 75
Deadly Brew gives you a third poison for free, and that third poison is the one that you must have for PvP. Powerful stuff. Dirty Tricks will be useful for rogues who aren’t able to keep up with what they’re actually doing in fast paced PvP. Paralytic poison I’m not sure on yet. It depends on what it shares its cooldowns with, could go either way.
Tier 6 level 90
Killing Spree is for PvP when your enemies are jam packed in with you, mostly battlegrounds. Setting off killing spree around a heavily defended flag in Arathi Basin can be cause for pure joy. However they’ve changed it up a bit if you look closely. Stun one enemy then turn and have a full 5 combo points to unleash on the player standing next to him? Me, I like. Vendetta has also been changed up, and if you combine it with Deadly Throw then lordy dee you will be trouble to deal with. Oh yeah, and there’s Shadow Dance as well. Fuck, I don’t know.
So there you have my take, would be interested to hear all of yours.
October 27, 2011 at 12:10 pm
Obviously all the talents are subject to change, yadda yadda, but on the face of it I like the concept behind the new talent system.
Right now, as everyone has moaned about extensively, there are very few real choices to make when you’re choosing talents (for any class). There are a bunch of “do more damage/do more healing/be a less squishy tank” talents. There are some pretty obvious PVP talents. For the most part, any leftover talents tend to be spent “wherever you feel like”, and don’t make a huge difference to how you play or how capable your character is.
The new system seems to present a lot of real choices — by which I mean you can look at a lot of tiers, for a lot of classes, and want all three options. Which is excellent — it’s not really a choice if only one of the options is something you’re interested in.
My only concern is that it might make leveling exceedingly anticlimactic. Already in the current system, there are points where you get the level up notification and… nothing. No new abilities, no new talent points to spend. Perhaps it’s just me, but I always find those moments a bit disappointing, and with a new talent every 15 levels, I can’t help but think there’ll be a lot more of those “DING!… blah.” moments.
October 27, 2011 at 1:34 pm
Leveling is rather easy, especially for veteran players. That crowd doesn’t need the new talent point or ability every level or two, since they have their eye on the big picture. New players might need an incentive like that though. My guess is, if they can tie the spec abilities to leveling in a more engaging way, that’s gonna be the game changer. Also, you won’t need to go to a trainer every time you level up, so that’s gonna be good too.
October 27, 2011 at 1:40 pm
For PvP all talents look pretty interesting. My only real concern is Preparation. It does too much. It’s boring, but being able to reset everything is just much more powerful than simple mobility. Compared to ShS and BoS it gives you too much. And for PvE content Preparation is another DPS CD. It resetsV Vanish, which allows Assassination to get Overkill and another Garrote up for Venomous Wounds. Sub gets to Ambush and proc FInd Weakness again. For PvE that particular tier doesn’t really provide a meaningful choice, since DPS will almost always trump utility. This is counter to what the design intent is meant to do.
Long story short, Preparation needs to go. It could potentially have us balanced for PvP once again for the 3rd expansion in a row. This I find unacceptable. It also allows for a significant DPS gain, which means it trumps the others on the same tier.
Personally I think, that since that tier is all about mobility we should get something that works in that theme. How about a Rogue Death Grip!
October 27, 2011 at 4:44 pm
I’m not so sure, Ben. With a 5 minute cooldown, Prep is an occasional thing and Vanish is the only really beneficial reset for PvE. The DPS gain is a gain to be sure but minimal. On the other hand, if you’re in a target switching fight, Shadowstep is going to improve your time on target. It’s a boring talent for pve but simply magic in pvp.
I’ve been leveling a new rogue as combat and improved sprint/burst of speed is a remarkably useful talent for both pvp and pve. I’m also going to miss blade twisting if it’s not part of the deal for combat. It’s so nice to have a slow without having to use crippling poison. Without it, I’d probably take Deadly Brew but Dirty Tricks does have some nice utility in bgs when a healer shows up. Blind your current target, switch to the healer and not have to worry that your poison or bleed is going to break it.
I think these are interesting talents.
October 28, 2011 at 8:09 am
What about the shadow dance reset? the abilty to spam ambush is huge for pve as well as pvp.
October 28, 2011 at 11:32 am
Yeah, that looks like one of the nerfs to be.
October 27, 2011 at 8:51 pm
I’m a total PvE hero so take my words with a bucket of salt, but for arena play I think imp. recuperate is going to beat leeching poison. The reason is that you’re most likely to die when you are in a position where you can’t attack the enemy anyway – ie. stunned or out of range. In those situations imp. recup is still gonna give you the damage reduction. For 1v1 or battlegrounds leeching poison might very well be better.
October 28, 2011 at 11:31 am
You could well be right. Nothing more frustrating than being kept at a distance while you die.
October 29, 2011 at 11:20 am
[...] if WoW’s about to go F2PTalentsThe Noisy Rogue goes through Shaman talents – no, wait – rogue talents in 5.0A Sunnier Bear is looking at the new Druid talents from the point of view of a bear tankDan Desmond [...]
November 1, 2011 at 6:00 pm
Recuperate is crap?! This is a joke right? Recup is one of the best rogue abilities! It provides massive healing and longevity on the battlefield for next to no energy (30 cost with a 25 refund at 5 points). Why would you replace one of our current poisons with one that combined with recup is going to give tons of wasteful overhealing?!